W h e e l s O f F l a m e
Tales From The Church Of Tubeness
Comments on "PETE THORN SIGNATURE TONES DYN-IR PACK for TWO NOTES"
Comment From Dewd McMan
It really is so absurd how uncreative & robotic people R with imitating each other's ineficient mistakes rather than thinking rationally. What is a speaker doing other than altering the frequency response & dynamics? U can emulate all that very easily through free software like Reaper plugins, & even slap on some short echo things 2 emulate the messed up impulse response speakers always have. It's not necessarily the best sound though. Simply open your program & tweak the EQ to taste, then mess with the compression, even multi-band ones. It's so easy 2 do = WAAAY easier than sifting through '10,000 types of random bull$hit' in an 'emulator' program that is no, not really 'moving a mic around' or whatever. Should rename it 2 what it actually is = 'changing the wet/dry ambiance mix, & eq & compression & stuff.
It would B nice if Pete got out of his whole 'speakers & amps' routine & focused on preamp stuff, because U can easily nail any 'amp tone' at line level with tubes & effects like I mentioned. U absolutely do not need 'speaker impulse samples'. U can do it all FREE! In fact, if U just get a decent distortion pedal it's better than any 'digital emulator' 4 that, becasue all the digital ones sound like jaggy krap lacking detail & 'fine grain' like many pedals have, but tubes R best =) Pete maybe U should put up a 'paid online series of videos' or something 2 explain 2 people how 2 get all these tones with cheap gear? Instead of playing the 'IR $cam'? =))
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Reply From Pete Thorn
Show us what you’re talking about. In videos, with good audio. Start a YouTube channel and demonstrate, as I do, the way you think things should be done. Scam, that’s strong words. Back it up with whatever it is you’re talking about- demonstrate.
FWIW I was there when this process was done, it takes a few hours per speaker, moving microphones and sweeping tones constantly. It’s not random bullshit and it actually is virtually moving the mic. Perhaps you can sit in on a session where they create these and see for yourself like I have, how it’s done. It’s not EQ or “changing the wet dry mix” as you say. It’s complicated, detailed, and it takes a long time. But the results are a very accurate emulation of a specific microphone on a specific speaker in a cabinet and then of course you can combine different mic signals.
Beyond all this, if it sounds good it is good, people need to worry less about HOW things are done. Who cares if it’s a real speaker, a direct signal, mic’d signal… If the part moves you and if it suits the music that’s all that matters
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Responses From Dewd McMan
@Pete Thorn Oh sorry, I'm not trying 2 say U R like a thief or something. When I say 'scam' I am being a bit dramatic, but it is to highlight the obvious, verifiable fact that all U R doing when U move a mic away is increasing the 'wet' mix from the room ambience (but physically vs 'electronically'), & the differences between mics & speakers & cabinets & stuff is mainly a combination of differences in 'natural' built-in 'by 'design' EQ, dynamics, & ambience, & by blending those things electrically via free software U can EMULATE pretty much anything U like and it's actually easier & simpler 2 do than sifting through an endless list of 'presets' and 'impulse responses' in some 'modeler'.
I play guitar & bass & stuff but I am not a 'musician' or 'performer' & I really don't care 2 do it = 2 much 'practice & repetition'. I just play what I like, & it's fun 2 nail sounds I like & tweak 2 different 'worlds' =) I'm a house flipper and USED TO work in audio from mass fi to high end and 'home theaters of the rich & famous' & all that jazz, but it gets eventually into 'construction' type stuff but doesn't pay nearly as well so I'm like 'WTF 4 way less work can make way MORE!' HAHA Installing 'gear' is not 'music making' or 'sitting around fiddling with demos' (which is the fun part =)
I have some great designs but haven't marketed the tubular ones hard. They're pretty awesome sounding. Maybe U would like 2 make some? It'll B a fun & tweaky adventure 4 U = no more need 4 'cabinets' & blabla ~>
http://paulrand.coolpage.biz/Toobz!.htm
What I would like 2 do is custom order some variants on the Linaeum tweeter design, maybe through HiVi. They sound better than any dome or planar style tweeter = no 'spitty' or 'jaggy' coloration.
I can send U tips & 'hear it 4 yourself' kind of thing =D Beats the fuk out of 'studio monitors'. I'm not here 2 play 'competition' with U, just give U some ideas that U can use yourself & share with others, like U could do a paid series on 'how to emulate any speaker/mic/cabinet', etc. Back in San Fagcisco when I had a mobile studio thing I had 'mic models' in a Yamaha digital mixer 2 emulate various mics LOL It was (like I said) a combination of various EQ curves & dynamics & ambience (including really short stuff 2 'muddy' things like tube pres).
It's not that hard 2 get sounds the way I describe. I should maybe put up a page but I think U really already understand what I'm saying. Any free junk PC off the street running reaper & some better reverb models can also do it but way better (the defaults suk =) BTW: B sure 2 do everything at 48Khz unless U R going 2 CD, because 'Realtek' trash infects most machines & those chips force odd resampling creating harsh sound unless it's native 48 =D Try a cheap or free Dell with an AD1984 chip 4 instance ~>
https://justpaste.it/5gjb1
BTW: There R some great used things out there that especially when used together get really high class results. Some I won't mentio as kind of scarce but U know the drill = I know U R a 'pedal pimp' but there R maybe some 'Ma$ter Cla$$' ideas U could weave into it like your friend Tim Pierce? Like 'Pete Thorn Guitar Tone Tips & Tricks Cla$$ $erie$'? =D
1 of the first things I did long ago when I got a fancy Sony preamp like TAE1000ESD / 2000ESD was fiddle around with EQ & reverbs & $hit 2 make tube preamps nail certain things from records, like In Flames ~>
https://bit.ly/3dFDZCR
= with Peavey Rockmaster tube preamp & 'certain tube combinations' =)
Speaking of that, if U do a Les Paul copy through the RockMaster preamp easily trumps (same vibe but even better) Creed ~>
https://bit.ly/3IGRIru
Best clean tone I was able 2 get was through an Engl 620 = just a piece of krap really but buttery smooth =D The high gain stuff was not nearly as ballzy as others. I used 2 get lots of different stuff on Fleabay, & they all sound different, even within the same model. The RockMasters 4 instance the 1's with plastic push-pull pots sound better ~ not necessarily because of those pots, but something different in what they R using in there makes them more fancy sounding. Some things keep going up so no need 2 $ell them right away.
& Treponem Pal, Swans & others. I wasn't able 2 get Saxxon though, which I would like, even though had some Marshall 9001 stuff. I still have them so maybe could, but the 'Salvation Mods' stuff sounds a lot closer off the bat so maybe can get somebody in China 2 do a cheap knockoff of 1 of those? =D
Oh there's another thing = U could put out cheap Chinese tube preamps! Call it an alternative 2 the Suhr things, & since U R selling them direct (of course? =) maybe even makes more than other Endor$ements? =D Actually I could help U line that up if interested, including backing some initial unit(s) like 'The ThornSound 100 Preamp' HAHA =)) Comes with some 'Reaper Presets' 2 nail Saxxon? That wood B GR8 ~>
https://bit.ly/3oLqBnf
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O'BTW yes & when U move the mic it also changes the EQ, especially when U move it sideways instead of just backing away from the speaker(s). It's the 3 things 2gether than govern all this 'impulse' krap = EQ, dynamics (various levels of compression in different areas) & ambiance (reverb/delay, etc.) When U stuff a different mic in front of the speaker U R simply changing those combinations of colorations. If U start with a high quality thin membrane condenser U can emulate pretty much any other mic, because all the detail is there 2 save or modify or discard or whatever. That's what I would do N E way, like if somebody wanted an 'SM57/58' sound, just pull up the 'fuk it up like one of those trashy mics' presets =)) Everything in between is pretty much different variations of 'telephone tin can voice' mixed in with the clean natural original condenser signal LOL
Another funny thing with the 'modelers' is U can buy a decent tube preamp & use free software 2 mod the eq & dynamics & ambiance 4 less than the other toys, & the result is better. That 'Neural DSP Quad Cortex' whatever sounds great, but only because Pete sampled what he is already doing. U can do as well the cheaper way ~>
Pete U should $ell your plugins 4 that thing & it would definitely $ell = like the models U used there & others U can do later. I might even buy it just 2 dik around & compare 2 tube things & C what's possible. The stock sounds in other demos R not impressive.
Check out this clown pretending amp sims sound as good as real ones because he wants 2 peddle impulse collections & other 'software solutions' LOL ~>
It's true some amp sims can sound good, but by far the best I've ever heard R the custom things U did with the Neural DSP Quad Cortex pedal. Pretty much everything else I've heard lax ballz = oddly lacking in detail, jaggy, distant, blurry, etc.. It would B nice if U put out YOUR 'models' using that, but in cheap & E Z software form, like if U could get 2gether with Mr. Friedman Amps guy & do something 2 nail this in software (& nothing else, like because this is enough & the 'limitation' leaves U 2 $ell other things 4 other $ounds) I would pay $30 (thirty dollars) 4 it, as would bazillions of other guitari$ts I think =) ~>
Saxxon Wheels Of Steel Live Germany:
Who will offer a 'simulator' that will simply nail that tone 4 us? Who would not pay $30 for it? I don't mean 'approximation', but 'duplication'. This Donnas 'Call Me No More' tone is also nice ~>
This other is nice ~ Treponem Pall 'Get What U Deserve' ~>
This U can nail with a Peavey Rockmaster preamp + EQ & dynamics & ambience (like even with a random home theater preamp like Sony TAE1000 or 2000 ESD ~>
Helps 2 have like an ESP Viper with EMGs but can get close with other things.
Or Creed, with a Les Paul copy + Rockmaster preamp ~>
It's actually BETTER with the preamp & a cheap Dean guitar =)) FUNNY! same vibe & texture, but more ballzy & intricate =D
Also helps 2 use a good DAC, with nice clocking, but I will leave it there as some of the used $his it kind of scarce even on Fleabay =P
This tone is also GR8 = can $ell a $30 'one trick pony' 2 do exactly this? U can 'model' this exactly? ~>
Him Wicked Game ~>
Join Me In Death ~>
Also nice ~>
This Neurosis tone U can nail with a Marshall 9001 + SG ripoff, like N E cheap all mahogany set neck Chinese piece of krap with alnico pickup magnets, + octave splitting effect ~>
I was evenable 2 nail this 'neurosis' thing with SG knockoff through a piece of $cam $hit like a Rocktron Voodoo Valve =)) The tube is AFTER the DIGITAL distortion =)) The sony DSP chip inside is what gives it the nice FX HAHA = maybe other sony things also do this? This tone is basically a marshall transistor pedal through rocktron ($ony) reverb (the JMP-1 is a pedal circuit 4 distortion & the tubes R AFTER, like the Mesa Boogie Triaxis $cam) ~>
End of the harvest (note the cleans U can nail if using 'halfround' type strings =)
Depends on tubes used & other stuff but the point hiere is no cabinets or mics or rooms R needed. It's all 'preamp level' stuff.. Well blabla = guess I should put up a page about these things, with suggestions 4 sounds. All I want is the Saxxon 'Wheels Of Steel' sound. It's the best. I will never need N E thing else. I think of it like classical in a way = Y dik around with other things if U like the sound of violin or something? Funny how Middle Eastern do it so much better than Europe ever does ~>
No I don't know WTF they're sayin' =))
Fok Yaz! =)
R there even N E 'Western' instruments in this 1? What's that plunky oboe-ish thing?
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BTW: Something else fun 2 do is improve the quality of krappy downloaded videos =) Also works 4 noisy old DVDs & stuff 'compressed 2 hell & back' 2 even scare up 'HD' vibe from 'trash'. This fuk'd up Jennifer Rush vid is a GR8 example ~>
https://justpaste.it/32kp3
https://justpaste.it/7i54j
Can do 2 fix up photos 2 ~>
https://justpaste.it/67srx
Lot of those R just tweaked with freeware 'FSviewer' ~>
https://justpaste.it/71kdb
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Hey Again Pete! =) Here's a demo 4 U of the Peavey RockMaster Preamp vs the ADA used on many albums...
8:18 = ADA, & 8:53 = Peavey Rockmaster
The ADA was quite popular & still is! ~>
https://bit.ly/3IPyyzs
https://bit.ly/3m1Sxl1
https://bit.ly/33tqNPK
This 'Salvation Mods' guy does cool stuff ~>
http://salvationaudio.com/
Michael Wagner famous 'Metal Engineer' with a bunch of different $alvation preamps ...
= peddling half-baked 'profiles' of them now LOL
Not the best player but good sound examples of 'preamp module emulation' of big amps:
Can approximate some Marshalls 2 ~>
That's not me =)) I didn't do that demo, or this 1...
Not my fave tone, just some interesting examples what's possible...
= Bit pedal-ish but OK =)) Certainly if U run EMGs through it can nail this, which is GR8 ~>
Anzo Awn (Moonshield 1999) ~>
The cleans R nice 2 ~>
I'm not saying it's the best preamp. It's just an exacmple U don't need amps & speakers, because U can definitely do this at preamp level, like this was done with the ADA ~>
Now, I don't know if these guys R using a Rocktron Voodoo Valve, but I had 1 of those & could get this sound exactly. Not approximation or emulation, but duplication (interesting =) ~>
But not quite this = maybe they R using real amps & this is beyond the 'Voodoo Valve' capabilities...
Watevz dood = tweeking ideas 4 Preampness =)
Waiting 4 the "ThornWheels" 1-trick pony program = just plug in & get that Saxxon 'Wheels Of Steel' thing =)
Tet $witch, Et Bich
