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BBC: You're live with BBC News. Now, remember this. Have a look at these pictures, because that is A.R. Rahman lifting two Oscars for the unforgettable soundtrack from Slumdog Millionaire. Well, the Indian composer has again been making headlines, this time using AI to recreate the voices of two singers who've both passed away.Well, it's a move that's proved controversial with split opinions. Some have supported the move, saying that A.R. Rahman has always pushed the boundaries of technology. Others, though, have described it as unethical and disrespectful. Well, I'll talk to the composer live on the programme in a moment or two. First, though, have a listen to a clip from the song. Well, there, a little preview. Let's go live to Chennai. Let's talk to A.R. Rahman. Thank you so much for being on the programme once again. Tell me, first of all, why you decided to do this with AI.
BBC: You're live with BBC News. Now, remember this. Have a look at these pictures, because that is A.R. Rahman lifting two Oscars for the unforgettable soundtrack from Slumdog Millionaire. Well, the Indian composer has again been making headlines, this time using AI to recreate the voices of two singers who've both passed away.Well, it's a move that's proved controversial with split opinions. Some have supported the move, saying that A.R. Rahman has always pushed the boundaries of technology. Others, though, have described it as unethical and disrespectful. Well, I'll talk to the composer live on the programme in a moment or two. First, though, have a listen to a clip from the song. Well, there, a little preview. Let's go live to Chennai. Let's talk to A.R. Rahman. Thank you so much for being on the programme once again. Tell me, first of all, why you decided to do this with AI.
ARR: Well, I think a lot of people have been putting out clips on TikTok and Instagram and all this stuff. I was intrigued, and one of my assistants, who started a company, was testing out timeless voices. And he sent me a sample of one of the singers who passed away, whom I introduced to the industry. And the director, Aishwarya, was looking for her movie, Lal Salaam, for a folk kind of voice. And I felt that voice would be good, and then why don't we try this? And it was an experiment. I would say it's like 70% successful, but I wanted to do it, you know, allegedly. I wanted to take the permission of the folks, you know, the wife and the family, of both the families, Shahul Amid and Bama Bakia. And also, it becomes a way of sustenance for them. In future, people use that stuff. They ask permission. This is the lyric you're singing. This is the tune you're singing. Is it okay with you? And then we pay them for... So, in a way, I felt my conscience is clear.
BBC: Well, we have the pictures of the two singers on the screen as you're describing it. You mentioned there that you went to the families, you spoke to them was their initial reaction? Because they must have been surprised.
ARR: Yeah, they were surprised. I think there was an email. My assistant sent an email and then sent a voice note saying that the kid, they said, I'm very happy that my dad is being remembered and we're getting this compensation and all this stuff.
BBC: And tell me a little more about practically how you actually did it because I don't think it's been done before, has it? It's been done in English, but not in Tamil.
ARR: Yeah, I think you just have to have a voice alone recording without processing. And the AI learns it, I think 2,000 to 10,000 iterations, computational thing. And then it spits out, you get a singer to sing the song and then you insert that WAV file and it changes. So, I kind of used the best parts of what it did.
BBC: And from your memory of them singing, how close do you think it was?
ARR: I would say 70%. Some of the songs are very near, but this song came at around 70%. But I think the nostalgia and also people misusing technology, I think there's a legit way to do that. Any technology should benefit humanity and, you know, not take away livelihoods. So, in this case, I felt good that it's a great opportunity to go to the families and they also see the legacy of, you know, the singers continue.
BBC: I mentioned in the introduction about split opinions. I mean, Sir Paul McCartney, of course, only recently used AI to produce that final Beatles song. And yet, on the other side of the fence, you have people like Sting, very skeptical, talking about musicians being in a battle to defend their work. He said recently, the building blocks of music belong to us human beings and talked about defending our capital against AI. So, in terms of reaction, what sort of reaction have you had locally to this?
ARR: I've not seen any reaction, but I've actually kind of think a lot before getting into this stuff. Because if it takes away livelihood or it does anything harmful, I think I never want to do that. Because I believe in spiritual, you know, and soul connection and people's good wishes. But in this case, I felt it was very strong. It helped the song and it also, we got permission and compensation was given. And nobody would mess around. When they have to do this again, they would go to the families, get the permission and then pay them.
BBC: So, it's interesting because you were one of the first Indian film composers back in the 90s to use electronic music in a film score. I talked to you only a couple of years ago when you were doing that immersive experience film, Le Musk . That came complete with sense in pods. We have those pictures on the screen as I'm talking to you. So you've always used technology. Do you see AI as no different to all of that in terms of advances in technology, no dangers at all?
ARR: I personally think we should use it like a slave. We should use it for the good parts and not give authority or, you know, decisions which would harm humanity, even if you think it's 100% correct, and keep it as an augmented tool for humanity to do things which are sometimes, you know, takes hours and hours of work.
BBC: Well, AR Raman, we have to leave it there. But thank you so much for taking time to join us on the programme live there from Chennai. Thanks so much. Thank you. Bye.