Introductions.
ZywOo says interviews are the hardest thing for him. Interview happening live from the Vitality training centre at the Stade de France.
Part 1: Personal history
Q: Where are you from ? Which city were you born in ? What schooling did you receive until you started playing CS:GO professionally ?
A: Born in Lens (northern France). School-wise, finished high school (technical degree). No university schooling. There was no time to continue school with CS. Had to make a choice and CS immediately took that spot.
Q: From researching you, I found that you participated in some tournaments at the age of 16. Was it difficult finding a balance between high school obligations and the beginning of your CS career ?
A: I was often tired. Had school from 8 AM to 6 PM. Home at 6:15 PM. Didn't even bother doing homework because I had CS practice at 7 PM. My bag was at the bottom of the staircase and it remained there all night. From 7 PM to midnight, we played, then sleep at midnight.
Q: Did this cause any issues with schooling ? Since you didn't do any school work ?
A: I just didn't do them yeah. I told my mom that I need to change something. I can't do both school and CS. I could do my homework while I'm in class so that I don't need to get it done at home. We did this and it worked out pretty well.
Q: Your mom was the one who told you to finish your high school degree, right ?
A: Yes, my mom told me that I absolutely needed to finish high school to carry on with life. She said you never know when eSports can collapse and you need to have some backup. Of course I had to listen to her since she is my mom. There were some tensions initially since I was in awe of all the CS teams and the scene in general. Over time, that tension dissipated completely.
Q: Of course, there can be some parental tensions when you're starting something new. Initially, they don't understand. And on your end, you see some amazing opportunities, you want to experiment.
A: For sure, you see all the pro players who are travelling. So when your mom is telling you to finish high school, you tell yourself "alright, just another 1.5 to 2 years before I get there", and when you eventually make it there, you tell yourself you're past the hard yards and you've made it.
Q: With the perspective you have two years after high school, I'm assuming you don't regret your choice ?
A: I'm happy I made this choice. I secured my future with this high school degree. Looking back on it, the choice was obvious. It was the right choice.
Q: Seems like the wisest choice definitely. So how did you start CS initially ?
A: My cousin showed my brother CS, whom immediately wanted to buy a PC. His first game was Counter-Strike: Source. I must have been around 7 or 8, and I watched him play. He went to internet cafes with my cousin, and this is how I discovered the game. Around the same year, my brother and I started alternating on the PC. We would each play an hour. Later, I got my first PC. I kept playing CS but I did briefly venture into Call of Duty as well.
Q: Oh really ?!
A: Yeah, for about a year and a half, I played Modern Warfare 2. Best game ever. Maybe CoD 4 competes, but I never really played that. I was too young. I started taking CS seriously when CS:GO came out. I went all out, played it endlessly.
Q: So at the age of 10, you were already playing on PC ?
A: I have always been PC. Had some consoles just to play solo games like Darksider. But other than that, always PC games.
Q: So you started CS around the age of 12 or 13 ?
A: Yeah. Very beginning of CS:GO.
Q: Around which age did you start being on actual teams? I know that around 2016 you started doing tournaments that were a little more legitimate, then you went on to win your first LAN at WESIC in 2017. Before that though, tell me about your comeuppance, things I couldn’t find on your Liquipedia page.
A: I made some teams with my brother, then during tournaments, we got scouted and our paths split. My brother stopped playing for a good while, but he’s back now and he’s on a team and all that.
Q: On a team right now ?
A: Yes
Q: So as I was saying, you started doing more serious things around 2016, and if I’m not mistaken, you won your first LAN ever, right ?
A: No, my first LAN was around the age of 9 or 10. I was with my entire family. Pastries and all that. Very small knit.
Q: So beyond the age of 9 or 10, did you keep doing LANs when you were 12 or 13 ?
A: Yeah, I never said no if people asked me to go to a LAN. I kept doing LANs regularly.
Q: So when you first your first real LAN in 2017, how did it feel ?
A: I don’t remember. I had won a tournament but I needed to keep going. Even though I had won this first one, I wanted even more. I wished to get to a higher level. I was still super happy, but winning a French LAN wasn’t all that. I wanted to start looking at international LANs.
Q: For sure, especially since we know that 2017 was a rough year for French CS internationally. But beside that, you were starting to gain recognition, clips of yours were floating around the web, people were mentioning your name, even cheating accusations. Looking back, how did you react to these cheating accusations ?
A: I laughed off the accusations when talking to my buddies. Some clips, I wouldn’t even have known how to really explain them, but there was just a natural element to it.
Q: Of course, from your perspective, it was just things you did in your gameplay, the way you played the game. So definitely, you just found the accusations funny then ?
A: Yeah totally. In my head I was just like “I’m just smashing all of you. I play my own game, and nothing more.” (laughs it off)
Part 2: Eventually joining the big leagues
Q: I appreciate the very honest response. So because of these clips, you got some attention. Your WESIC team eventually moved to AAA (the org, I’m assuming). How did that move go ?
A: I don’t even remember that exact moment. Couldn’t tell you. I think they just contacted it and we went from there.
Q: No problem. Do you at least remember the move from AAA to Vitality ?
A: Of course. Huge moment.
Q: How did it go ? I was told that they paid your contract’s succession so that you would go from one team to the other. How did you react to the news ? What excited you in this move ?
A: Vitality’s offer was the first one I got. I basically got the offer when I finished high school, so everyone knew that I was available. So I got a lot of offers, and Vitality’s offer was the only one for a strictly francophone team. I didn’t want to go international as my English is terrible. It was my best choice, and also my only choice since there weren’t any other French teams. Of course, seeing the players who were already on the team, it was a dream come true.
Q: Right, so this allowed you to hit two birds with one stone: your need to be in an FR team, but also to join a project that aligned with your ambitions.
A: And to have some very experienced players on the team. RPK, Apex, Nathan (NBK)
Q: Do you think going pro and being in a more serious context had an influence on your in-game performance ?
A: Not really. I’ve always thought that I just need to play my game, and no exterior factors matter. When I’m on stage, the only thing in my world is the screen in front of me. My teammates are there, whom I can hear and nothing else can disturb me.
Q: I figure you guys must have physical and mental coaches within Vitality obviously. Did being well looked after help you step up your game ?
A: I don’t think so. I think it helped me progress my personal life, but in-game, not really. Even the nutritionists, mental coaches, etc. didn’t impact my in-game skills.
Q: Right because for some players, having access to all those health services isn’t going to step up their game, but it’s going to make them feel better in their day-to-day life, which will then have a positive impact on their performances in the server.
A: Yeah you can see that right away for certain players.
Q: And it could also help their longevity; to maintain a high performance level for even longer. But I guess if in your case, those coaches at least helped you in your personal life without helping you directly in the server, that’s at least something.
Earlier, you were mentioning your schedule when you had school and practice at night. Now that school isn’t in the way anymore, what’s your current training schedule like, beyond team practice ? What do you do on an individual basis to make sure you keep improving, and what have you done to get to the level you are currently at ?
A: I don’t do aimbot, DM, or any of that stuff. I only do FaceIT. I used to wake up and immediately queue FaceIT as I was barely awake to start the day on the right foot.
Q: Right so you just did PUGs and you never cared about warmup and all that?
A: Yeah sometimes I just look at people who need 1h of warmup and I just go “huh… ok”. I’ve just never done that. I’ve never DM’d. At LANs, if you don’t have time to do a whole FaceIT match, then you might get a quick ten or fifteen minutes of DM in. But when I was playing like a madman, it was FaceIT all-day.
Q: Do you still do a ton of FaceIT these days ?
A: A lot less, I’ve toned it down immensely.
Q: So what does a prac day look like for your team then ? Without spoiling anything
A: We start around 10-10:30 AM. We hop into a server and we talk as a team, go over some stuff. Around noon we break for lunch, come back at 1 PM. From 1 PM to 6 PM, we play (with a one hour break in there). After 6 PM, we’re done. Everyone does whatever they want. Sometimes I play other games like Rocket League or even the occasional Warzone. I’m just easing into it, I get the occasional snipe but still struggling a little.
Q: A lot of CS legends like Guardian and s1mple are recognized as monsters in their own right, but also haven’t won a major. Considering the importance of majors, do you feel pressure in not having won a major yet, or do you feel like you haven’t been pro for long enough anyways ?
A: Indeed, it just hasn’t been long enough. It’s everyone’s dream but I need more experience to win a major. Majors are played very differently. There’s a big mental aspect, and there’s just something different about majors. The added pressure, which you don’t have in other tournaments.
Q: In some rounds, I can see the added pressure just being that difficult to handle.
A: Yeah like in some games, if you get eco’d and it’s 13-13, it’s a very tough spot to be in. Some 50-50 scenarios are very difficult to deal with yeah.
Part 3: Online era, Valve, slow meta changes, new Counter-Strike game, French scene auto-destructing
Q: With regards to the online era, how are you doing mentally with this whole situation ?
A: I’ve always done a good job of handling my mental game. I don’t hang around on Twitter, Instagram where people insult you when you lose a game. Or if I do look, I just brush it off and stay in my own bubble. I don’t take these things personally, they hold no importance.
Q: You seem to just not care about pressure (excluding majors), you seem to have a “no care” attitude (very relaxed) ?
A: To me, playing is playing. It doesn’t matter if there are 20,000 people watching or anything. It’s all the same. It’s just me and my screen. I’m in my bubble, I’m with the team.
Q: What do you think about the future of CS, with other games like Valorant entering the space either now or later ? Or even a new CS game since CS:GO is soon going to be 10 years old.
A: I think something might have to be done maybe. Valorant took a lot of players from CS. Valve don’t do a lot of updates.
Q: Are you satisfied with recent updates ?
A: The old updates like the Krieg or the AUG being absurdly over-powered, they took 6 months to nerf it. It’s always a long wait until nerfs come in. Either Valve is doing it for the general public because the average player likes to have really strong weapons, or Valve just doesn’t care about the game and they let things slide.
Q: Do you think maybe the meta should be switched up more often ? Perhaps every 2-3 months ?
A: Every 2-3 months for sure. Not 6 month metas. I like to see the game renew itself, to have a new kind of gameplay, to find new little things after an update (for example: the smoke grenade fade). Just little advantages you can gain here and there.
Q: Were you sick of the Krieg meta towards the end ?
A: Look, when a guy isn’t moving, is crouched, and gets four kills, I kind of go “we’re not playing the same Counter-Strike, we’re not playing the same game, it’s like Call of Duty”.
Q: Would you be interested in a new CS?
A: I’ve played every CS, I’d like a new CS game. I like all possible games, so if a new CS game comes, I will play it 100%.
Q: When you see 3 players from Astralis who have won absolutely everything and have then experienced burnout, do you think the rate of tournaments players are subject to is too high?
A: It was definitely high when COVID hit. Before then, we did two tournaments a month, and we had some time to recover here and there. It was a different kind of fatigue naturally, mostly due to constant travelling. You could rarely catch a real break. Post-COVID, you basically just always played, 24/7. You practice, you play your match if you have one, and you go sleep. Same exact thing the next day, you just become a robot.
Q: Did you prefer the schedule pre-COVID ?
A: Yeah for sure. I’d rather travel, and I really miss LANs. I miss playing in front of people, playing “real” tournaments. I was even watching some random LAN in Switzerland the other day, that’s how much I long for the in-person experience.
Q: I did the math. In about 14 months, you did 20 LANs, which is a pretty strenuous schedule. So in your case, are you able to hang in there despite having this many LANs ? And in your team, do certain people think it’s too much ?
A: Personally, not really. Some other people struggle with it since they’ve already been doing this for 2-3 years. 2019 was my first year so I found it fine. I could have even done an additional 10 LANs. Maybe 2-3 years from now, I won’t want to do 20 LANs a year.
Q: Now that you’ve done a bunch of LANs… ever since you joined Vitality, did you take away a lesson through your entry into the professional CS scene ?
A: I think I’m the same player I was two years ago. I haven’t really been shocked by anything coming into the scene. I had already kind of imagined things before I got picked up by a big team, so I had expectations from the get-go.
Q: You’ll be 20 next year. You live in a bubble, have a strict schedule, etc… Are you still able to take personal time to see your family, to talk to friends, etc ?
A: I’ve always had personal time. You’re always able to put aside some time to organize social events, etc… Even just a one-week break allows you to recuperate after 3-4 LANs. I still hang around on TeamSpeak to talk to friends when I’m friends, but really that’s all I need to wind down.
Q: We’ve heard a lot that the FR CS scene was auto-destructing because of interpersonal conflicts. Do you think a coach deciding things is ideal and brings stability to a team ?
A: For sure. There used to be a lot of that. Like two players didn’t like someone, and they’d decide to get him kicked from the team. Really weird situations like that. That’s a big reason why I didn’t talk to the FR scene too much around 2017-2018. I only talked to my AAA team and that was it. There was a lot of backstabbing going around in the scene. You would join a TS and there was some conflict going on, insults being thrown. It made me uncomfortable. I wasn’t a fan of it all.
Now, the coach manages it all, we just think about the game.
Q: What is your favourite win ? Most awesome LAN ?
A: When we beat Astralis at Cologne 2019 in front of 20,000 people. Emotionally, it was incredible. I’m already not much of a talker, but in that situation I was straight up silent. It was the best. The fact that it was Astralis, the top team in the world, and the crowd was with us. Every time we won a round, the crowd was going nuts.
Q: I happened to be in Berlin during the Major on a personal holiday, and Vitality got me a free pass to watch you guys play in the arena. I remember you guys lost against ENCE that day. Having a crowd of that size (100 french fans who came to Berlin), how was it?
A: They asked me to talk to a mic, but I just couldn’t. I was blown away. I’d definitely love to see the French scene pick back up.
Q: How did your family experience your new lifestyle due to joining a big team ?
A: They were very surprised. They often told me that as a player, I wasn’t going to do anything. They thought a CS player was the same as a Crash Bandicoot player. My mom and my grandma understood the way things actually were, but my extended family (aunt and uncle) were quite clueless. Eventually, they all got into it and started watching my games. Sometimes, family will message me after a game and ask questions about a round, or like a tactic we did, since they don’t understand it (except my mom).
My mom watches every game of mine, and if it’s a big game, she even calls my grandmother over and they’ll watch together.
Part 4: HLTV #1 rank, having self doubts, being a leader (or not), future of ZywOo's career
Q: Which country did you prefer out of all your trips ? For a CS LAN or not
A: Chicago. It was a beautiful city, super sunny, nice and warm. The buildings were awesome.
Q: Least favourite ?
A: None really. Most cities are pretty standard.
Q: As someone who has risen through the rankings so quickly, up to #1 on HLTV, do you worry about maintaining such a form?
A: I asked myself this question about a month after I reached #1 on HLTV. It was a lot of mental pressure at first, and at that time I did actually look at Twitter a bit too much, but I’ve stopped social media now. I would ask myself “will I still be this good in six months?”. Staying at the top is the hardest part.
Q: Did you ever feel like you were starting to play worse ?
A: Never really. I always feel good when I’m on a PC. Always have the same mentality.
Q: During that short period where you were doubting yourself, did Vitality’s staff help you ?
A: Yeah they came to see me, to ask me if I seemed off because I was having self-doubts ? I think initially, I didn’t actually tell them, I pretended I was doing fine, but eventually I did tell them and we worked on it and they helped me.
Q: In sports, you often see that players who carry can sometimes feel an additional pressure due to their own ability. Do you feel that way ?
A: I don’t feel that at all. I just tell myself I need to do the job I was assigned and that’s it.
Q: Do you recognize yourself in Misuta at all ? Entering the pro scene and all that.
A: I don’t really talk much, I don’t give tips to people unless they come ask me.
Q: If someone does something that bothers you in-game, do you go tell them to work it out ?
A: Not really, I keep everything to myself. I internalize it all. Sometimes, the coach is there to make sure we get it out.
Q: You speak highly of your coach.
A: It’s too bad we can’t insult him. Coach is off camera and they all laugh.
Q: Do you think over time, you may become more extraverted, and express your opinion more ?
A: Not really. I’ve always been that way. I don’t like talking about my life.
Q: Often in sports, some players become more outspoken as they gain experience and feel more confident. They may even become a leader.
A: I don’t see myself becoming a leading figure at all.
Q: Do you see yourself continuing this career for as long as possible ?
A: Until the day I die hopefully. Initially, I wasn’t sure of it. I was just testing the waters, but with what I know now, I definitely want to keep going for as long as possible.
Q: Do you follow any streamers at all? Do you hang around on Twitch ?
A: With my friends, we watch random streams to just joke around, that’s about it though.
Q: What’s the next big tournament for you guys ?
A: We have a bunch of back to back tournaments, but honestly I couldn’t name them in order to you. I just know we have a lot of tournaments. We have Beijing, Blast showdown, and others…
Coach off-camera mentions Dreamhack
Q: Thanks for coming on. You said you were introverted but you’ve been super fun to talk to.
End of interview