Episode 21 - Personal Evolution 03: with Crystal Miller
Woman Evolving
[Intro Music]
Cami: Hi Welcome Back to Woman Evolving. This is Cami and I have with me today Crystal Miller. Hi Crystal.
Crystal: Hello!
Cami: So we're going to be continuing our personal evolution and… again we're starting with our… admin and I'm really excited to interview Crystal because Crystal you're a person I would really love to be around and hang around. And yet I don't know much about you. [They both laugh] So… [continue laughing] Yes, a dark mystery.
And I apologize to the listeners my I'm gotten over a cold and I apologize if I've been coughing too in some of the other podcasts. Annoyed me. But anyways… I will try to stay away from coughing and you'll be able to hear my husky Demi Moore voice so [Crystal: Yeah…] Whoo hoo [Crystal: I like it] Mmm [they both like laugh] [Cami imitates a husky sexy voice?] Welcome to personal evolution. [They both laugh] [continue laughing] I should charge for this one!
Crystal Miller: Family
Cami: Umm.. okay so… [they are both still laughing] so Crystal… uh, is Crystal Miller your maiden name?
Crystal: No my maiden name is, uh, Hatfield.
Cami: Hatfield. Okay so tell me, let's start from the very beginning. Where were you born? Where did you grow up when you were a little girl?
Crystal: I was born in Payson, Utah. [Cami: Really?!] Uh-huh [Cami: How cute] But I only lived there until I was five, but I didn't go to kindergarten there. So I moved to Orem, Utah before Kindergarten and then I was basically raised in Orem through highschool.
Cami: Oh, okay okay. I have, um, my step-siblings when my family moved up to Utah, they grew up in Orem. They said that they really enjoyed it. Did you enjoy it?
Crystal: Um, it was fine. I mean I I I left there recently. I left there three years ago because it was too… uh… conservative [Cami: Okay] for me… [they both laugh] it's definitely a safe place to live [Cami: Yeah] and… you know I don't have like… huge complaints it's just not my vibe [laughs]
Cami: Got it. Okay. So you just recently moved there, so you've lived there, um… for… well not that you're old… but you've lived there for a long time it sounds like.
Crystal: Yeah. Um, with a few little, uh, skips and jumps around. I, umm, I was, an exchange student in Holland [Cami gasps] when I was 15 [Cami: Okay]. So... I turned 16 in Holland so that would have been 1992 so 10th grade the beginning of 10th grade I was an exchange student in Holland. And then I came back to Orem and ended up getting expelled from Mountain View Highschool for truancy. [Cami: Truancy] Because I was bored out of my skull! [they both laugh]
And so then I actually ended up going to boarding school in Pennsylvania where I graduated. I graduated from boarding school in Pennsylvania.
Cami: Okay. I want to go back to all that. Let's back up [Crystal laughs] let's back up though because I because we need to get establish The Crystal so… what, like, were you, uh, what number were you when you were born? Um, how many siblings did you have? Were your was your family from Utah? Tell me a little bit about your family of origin.
Crystal: Okay. Um, I am number 4 of 8. [Cami: Whoa] There are 6 girls and 2 boys in my family and I am nestled right between the two boys. [Cami: Okay] So it goes girl girl girl boy me boy girl girl girl [Cami: Wow] Um, my parents are both from Spanish Fork. Um, if, which is where they grew up. They went to highschool together. They're actually good friends. They were not highschool sweet hearts. [Cami: Oh, okay] They staffed together. They were aware of each other. They, you know, considered each other friends in the most loose sense meaning better than acquaintances but nothing more than that. [Cami: okay]
Um, and then, uh, when my dad went on an LDS, well first my dad went into the army. And he asked my mom, um, when he was deployed to Germany if she would write him. And she was like 'Sure, whatever' [they both laugh]. So, they exchanged letters while he was deployed in in Germany for two years. Then he came home and went on an LDS Mission for another two years. And it was during his mission that their letters turned more romantic as it were. [Cami: Okay] And they were married, um, within I think 13 days or it was… very few days of him returning from his mission they were married. [Cami laughs] So, they were, yeah [laughs] it was quick.
Cami: Well, that's just typical… that's just [they both laugh]. That's… that's fed-ex style Mormon-style. Yeah. [still laughing]
Cyrstal: So, um, so yea, so, uh, my family, uh, it's funny because people, uh when we when we tell people, uh, all of the children's names, they always say 'Oh my gosh are your parents hippies?' My parents are definitely not hippies. [Cami laughs] They are cowboys from Spanish Fork. But, um, they're very, uh, eccentric people for sure. Uh, never. My dad has never been a mainstream person. And, um, my mom certainly… while significantly more conservative than my dad, is also definitely not mainstream- Anybody that could put up with my dad for forty… a whole bunch of years is not mainstream [they both laugh]
Cami: So so, what was so, do you are you, able to say the names? What was so hippieish?
Crystal: Sure! Yeah, so, these, my my parents children's names are: Harmony, Liberty, Author, Crystal, Morgan, Shauna, Sunny Joe, and Holly Sue.
Cami: Oh that sounds like like the Partridge Family type of thing
Crystal: Yeah I know right! [laughs]
Cami: Yeah!
Crystal: Kind of expect them to be wearing flowers in their hair and sporting tie dyes… no. [they both laugh]
Cami: Were they baby boomers?
Crystal: Um, well my sister was born, my eldest sister was born in 1972. So, [Cami: Okay, yeah] yeah.
Cami: Yeah they were. Okay. Alright well that kind of, I'm I'm sure that it made some sort of influence but yeah. Interesting!
Crystal: Yeah. So… yeah. My dad's always been exceptionally eclectic and… he's… a kook [they both laugh]. But he makes a good grandpa and… [laughs]
Cami: That's awesome. That's great. So… so you guys, are you guys from pioneer stock, um?
Crystal: Yes. Uh, um, we're all, all the way back to, you know… I don't even know… Missouri and Elmira and wherever else [laughs]
Cami: Wow! So they made the trek… okay…
Crystal: Yeah, we did the trek. Yeah. Um, particularly on my mom's side. My mom's family goes all the way back to… crossing the plains. Um… My mom's… uh… I mean… she's done the genealogy far far back, but… predominantly what I know is that she's a Fairbanks and a Shumway (?).
Cami: And for those that are not Mormon or LDS, um. Pioneer… uh, she is referring to her family was, uh, one of the…. original pioneers that became LDS and and… when the Mormons were persecuted in the South, they made the trek all the way across to the far west. To… to Utah. That was… huge. Yeah. Okay. Um. Wow. Okay Okay.
Crystal: Yeah, so pioneer stock. I don't even know how many generations but lots of them. Um, so.
Cami: And where, wha- what countries do they come from?
Crystal: Um, England and Germany. [Cami: Okay] So, more of the Hatfield side, which is my dad's side of course, is more predominantly German and English. But the Shumway-Fairbanks side is is mostly English. [Cami: Okay] Um, so, we're pretty, uh, we're pretty White. [they both laugh]
Cami: Okay, great. Uh [still laughing] I love it. So… so tell me a little bit about growing up in, um, in your family - your large family. You guys were obviously active in the Mormon Church. And… tell me about how was, how did you experience your childhood?
Crystal: I would say that I had a good childhood. I don't think that it was, um, picture-perfect by any storybook, uh, you know standards. But, even looking back now, knowing you know what I know as an adult, I had it pretty good. My dad was a very strict authoritarian. He very much, um, lived by the credo of "It's my way or get out." And so, you know, there were rules that we knew were kept. It's funny because, um, just to side track for a moment…
I think about some of the things that my- the shenanigans that my kids pull on me. And, you know, if I had done any of these things with my dad, uh, I I wouldn't even dare. I mean I can't even I can't even imagine even considering it, let alone doing it [they both laugh]. Um, like, we had this rule, you know, no kids in the parents room. And, um, no no nobody can touch dad's stuff. And I mean it was just, it's just funny because my kids are like, the worst. [they both laugh] Which I… I parent differently and I'm happy with it. But, it's just funny how - like we knew, we knew what the rules were and we knew what the consequences were and we were not messing with that.
Yeah, we had scripture study every morning at 6a. And then, uh, we had family home evening every Sunday evening. We did it Sunday instead of Monday I have no idea why. But… and then, you know, there was no option, you went to Church on Sunday end of conversation. And, um, and young women's, you know, or young men's depending on your gender, mid-week you went to that no options. You were the most active Mormon you could be or… I mean… and even at a young age, so it's not even like we really could be kicked out. But like, it was there was never a question. You you followed all of… the strict rules.
And… we, as a matter of fact, I sometimes forget about this. But we were not even allowed to wear shorts [Cami: Really?] as children. Um, yeah, I remember the first time my sister defied that rule. I think she was thir- she was either 13 or 15, it's hard for me to remember because I'm 2.5 years younger than her. So either she was 15 and I was 13 or she was 13 and I was 11, I can't remember. But we went to a waterslide park and she decided to wear shorts over her swimsuit [Cami gasps] And… it was… like… that… she broke the dam and we all were like "Yeah we're wearing shorts now! Whoo!" [Cami laughs]
But we spent our whole childhood never wearing shorts. Never. [Cami: Wow!] So that's, yeah, crazy. [laughs]
Cami: So, so, was she punished?
Crystal: She was. Um, and then she made, you know, some sort of argument. And actually successfully because after that we were able to wear shorts. But she made some sort of argument about why can I wear a swimming suit if I can't wear shorts. And somehow it worked. So yeah, she literally broke the dam and all of a sudden the no shorts rule was obliterated. After year- decade- you know, a decade or more of that being the rule. It's funny because, now… my dad is… like… like… chill and, I almost swore, but he's great. [Cami laughs] You know, so, like… that that authoritarian, uh, you know, King of the home or hea-, you know, head of the household, that that attitude is completely gone. It's… it's interesting to see.
Crystal Miller: Holland Exchange Student
Crystal: Um, so… I don't really know why my parents sent me away to Holland as an exchange student. My dad had gotten to Germany on his LDS Mission. He converted a… German man and a Dutch woman that were married to each other and stayed in touch with him all their lives. They had a son that was about a year older than me. And, some, I I I've actually… I should ask him but… somehow the idea came to him that he… that Jurgen, this son of his friend's and I should switch places for a school year. Um, so it wasn't through any sort of, uh, company or, uh, program. We literally just switched places. [laughs] [Cami: Wow!]
And, um, I hated it at the time, you know. It was miserable and I was homesick and it was the first I'd ever… um… been away from my family for so long. And… I didn't speak the language. And of course looking back now I'm super grateful. But at the time I just thought that my dad was the most evil person ever.
Cami: How old were you when you went over to Holland, you said it was?
Crystal: Yeah, it was Holland. Um, I was 15. I went, um, in August when I was 15. I ended up, uh, staying until the end of January. I was supposed to go for the whole year, August- the whole school year- August to May, but by the end of January, I was, um, well, I was homesick. I was making bad choices, according to my parent's opinion. And… they decided it was better worth it to just have me come home and… um, rather than continue to live without their supervision [laughs].
Cami: So, so, what was going on that they di- that they weren't approving of?
Crystal: Um, I started smoking. At 15. So, yeah, really great. That idea. [laughs] And it was funny because really I started smoking because here I was in Holland, in this European country, where if I went to buy cigarettes they were like "here you go." You know, they didn't question it? So I was like, "this is amazing." [they both laugh] Stupidest reason ever to start smoking. But, um, [still laughing]
Cami: Imagine if you had been in Amsterdam these days with marijuana being… available. [laughs]
Crystal: And and, uh, I was, you know, I was, I had alcohol available to me. Actually only ended up drinking once while I was out there and it scared me to death. It gave me nightmares and I swore I'd never drink again ha ha [they both laugh]. Yeah, so, they finally decided that for my mental health, they should probably let me come home.
And um, so I came home, and I ended up being, um, ended up going... to… it's now Utah Univ- Utah Valley University but it was Utah Valley Community College at the time. [Cami: Yes] And, um, I was concurrently enrolled there for a semester. And, then… um, I went back to, and this, and then I went back to… um, Mountain View to take like Yearbook Class ?. My parents wanted me to socialize with kids my ages, so in my concurrent enrollment for my… junior year, um, I was enrolled at Mountain View. Um, uh, I ended up, I had 38 absences out of 43 days for the semester and still ended up with straight A's.
Cami: And this is in your Junior year?
Crystal: Yeah, this is the first half of my Junior year. [Cami: holy cow] [Crystal laughs] So, at that point, they didn't know what to do with me, because I was trouble! [Cami: Wow] And they ended up sending me to boarding school in, uh, in Pennsylvania. It was called The Mercersburg Academy. And… um, again, it was kind of like Holland. I hated their guts for it. It was the worst experience I ever had in my entire life. Except, looking back as an adult, it was the greatest thing they ever could have done for me. Because I probably never would have graduated from high school.
And that, you know, just because I was… um, you know, I've always been gifted and bright. And it was just… way too easy and boring for me. And, not worth my time, you know.
Crystal Miller: Is Smarter Than you
Cami: Right, so you were… so you were struggling not because you… were having a hard time learning. You were just bored. You were not being challenged? [Crystal: Yeah, exactly] Okay.
Crystal: Yeah, it it just… I still have a hard time with that today. Like, understanding that people don't function at the level I function at [laughs]
Cami: Really? Have you ever had your, um, you know, IQ testing…?
Crystal: I have. I have an IQ of 134-136.
Cami: And I'm so sorry, this should say something about me about my IQ, but what does that mean? [laughs]
Crystal: Um, it's it's bright. I'm not a genius… by definition. Like, my sister's a genius. Like, my sister's in mensa. She's like crazy smart. I'm just smart [laughs]. [still laughing] I think 'bright' is the word. Or 'gifted'.
Cami: Okay okay so you're gifted okay.
Crystal: Yeah, I'm probably have, I probably have autism. And I don't mean that to be… to be a smart ass. But like, it's really hard for me to relate to others that don't… function where I function. For example, at work right now, I'm training somebody to do this to do this same job that I do. And… it's, I, really struggle with… um, her not understanding it as quickly as I would… and not doing it as deftly as I would. And, it's been interesting as I… um, as my boss has been like 'now hold on, back up, take a look. She's doing a perfectly good job [laughs]. You cannot hold her to the standards you hold yourself.' So, anyways, it's interesting. Uh, not that I can't function or not that I look down on people, I really don't [Cami: Right] it's just this, it's more about… holding myself, like my boss says, holding myself to a standard that's ridiculous.
Cami: Well it seems like you catch onto information so quickly that you can just keep going, and, somebody else has to sit there and conceptualize it. [Crystal: Yeah] Yeah. Okay. Wow. I wish my brain could do that, that quickly, um, kind of envy that. [laughs]
Crystal: Well interestingly I don't make a good tutor or teacher because… the one thing that I'm not good at. Or the one and only thing! [Cami laughs loudly] [Cami: Here it is people, here it is] Take note [both laughing, talking over each other]. Is, um, is explaining things in any other… viewpoint than my own. So I have a really hard time taking something and and… and… explaining it, yeah, I mean, I don't even how, there's no other words for it. I can't… it's really hard for me to explain something from any viewpoint other than my own. So, [Cami: Got it], I make a terrible tutor because I'll say 'Yeah, it's this this and this. Okay?' [they both laugh] 'yeah but I don't understand it'. And I'm like, 'okay let me go over that with you again, this this this and this' Like, I can't… there's no other, I have no other way of explaining it [Cami: Right right] [they both laugh] Not a good tutor or teacher [they both laugh]
Cami: But you're a good do-er.
Crystal: Yes, I'm a good do-er. [Cami: And so you…] And I'm a good leader. If I could just say 'you do this and run with it' that's great. But, yeah.
Cami: Now, were you kind of like, it kind of sounds like you were, almost like the black sheep of the family. Because you… kept getting sent, or, were you the only one who was like experimenting with cigarettes or…
Crystal: No no no. I'm one of 5 black sheep in my family. [Cami: Got it, okay] [laughs] So my oldest sister Harmony is, um, still… the… she follows all the rules. She walks the straight and narrow. Um, my next sister Liberty, who is actually in Woman Evolving - what up Liberty! [they both laugh] She is… she was the first rebel for sure, the first black sheep. She was the one who defied the shorts rule. And.. I mean she, she, and she was much more in your face about it. So… she was breaking rules and and not being… very… very sneaky about it. You know, she was kinda like, 'what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?'
And then and then my brother Art, who is the one who passed away 9 years ago. He, um, he was more quiet about his rebellion. So, but, like, not totally. Like, people knew that he wasn’t some goody two-shoes. But nobody knew… really how, uh, rebellious he was until at 15 his girlfriend was pregnant. [Cami: Aaahh] [they both laugh] And everybody was like 'wait what!' [they both laugh] [Cami: Very rebellious. Okay.]
Then there's me. Who I was rebellious as a teenager and then walked the… proverbial straight and narrow again as a younger adult. And then found my way… into… my own path as it were, at about, um, 32. And… yeah
Crystal Miller: Boarding School
Cami: Okay, So you… so, what… from somebody who's never been to boarding school, I'm I'm really curious. How was- is is it all girl boarding school, is that right?
Crystal: Mine was co-ed. [Cami: Co-ed? Okay] Mine was… interesting because we didn't have uniforms. We had a dress code, we didn’t have uniforms. And, um… it was… there were lots of rules. Um, you had to be- you didn't have to be at breakfast, the breakfast was, you know, you could eat breakfast in your room, you could skip breakfast, whatever. But you had to be at lunch and you had to be at dinner. And then there was mandatory study halls so you had to be in your dorms, you know, at 7 o'clock. Lights out was at 10 o'clock. Very strict rules like that.
And um, another rule was you had to be in a sport. So, every semester you had to be either in a PE class or on a team. And, um, that was really different for me to have it so…. Structured. Like, if you weren't in class, you better be in the infirmary because those were your choices. No exceptions.
Cami: Okay, so it was kinda like your dad but on a bigger scale.
Crystal: yeah yeah, exactly. I used to say it at the time when I was there. You know, it's like it's like going to school and having 50 parents instead of 1.
Cami: Yeah So you have… so you basically… it's almost like being in college but you don't have any kind of freedom. It's …
Crystal: No freedom. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Cami: Okay. Did you enjoy that? I mean, for me, I'm sitting here going, 'oh my gosh I think I would miss home and… family'?
Crystal: I did miss my home and my family. I did enjoy it. I… I… vilified it a lot more at the time than I do now looking back. [Cami: Okay] Um, I I felt picked on. I felt rejected by my family, you know, by my parents. And now looking back, I of course, I'm now a parent so I look back and I go, 'oh wow, it was kind of this or living on the streets. So thanks mom and dad. Especially because it's not cheap to go to boarding school. [Cami: Yeah, I was gonna say and and probably] Yeah, so they really sacrificed a lot to to send me there.
Cami: Well and probably, you know, the other kids- you're in there all together so it's kinda like everyone can feel each other's pain… and get through it together?
Crystal: Yeah. Although I didn't fit in because, um, my boarding school was full of… the eastern elite. So yeah, that was pretty weird. [laughs] I was not the eastern elite.
Cami: [they both laugh] A little, a little of Utah in… there… from Orem, Utah. Okay.
Crystal: They all figured we were polygamists.
Cami: [laughs] Of course.
Crystal: Like, I went to school with the granddaughter of Georges Marciano, the founder of Guess. [Cami: Wow] And the daughter, I mean the granddaughter of the founder of Woolworths. [Cami: Wow] I mean, yeah. Like, aside from the Rockefeller's and the Coke's, like, that that's but, you know, who was there. It was, it was serious business. [laughs]
Cami: [laughs] Okay, serious business. [they both laugh]
Crystal: I was like, [in a funny voice] 'hiii I'm from Utah. I got some real estate.' [they both laugh]
Cami: [still laughing] Oh gosh, okay. Well, that's really cool. So that gave you a different perspective. That, and Holland. And… wow! And so you, you did your Junior year or your Senior year there?
Crystal: Half of my Junior year and my whole Senior year. So I graduated from there.
Cami: Oh! Wow! Okay. And so once you graduated, what happened?
Crystal: Um, once I graduated, my dad had a, uh, hard and fast rule that once you're 18 and graduated from highschool, you're an adult get out of my house good luck!
Cami: Really?
Crystal Miller: First Ex-Husband
Crystal: [laughs] Yes. So, I, moved into an apartment with 4 strangers. Uh, in Ogden, to go to Weber State. And… I… got a job at Pizza Hut. And I met my… first ex-husband. [they both laugh]
Cami: My first ex-husband, I love it [laughs]
Crystal: And… we… moved in together and I lied about it to my parents, because I was still, you know, trying to be their, pseudo, good Mormon girl. And so we were married, I met him in August, we were married in November. Uh, because I had I had sex with him and I felt really really guilty and I thought if I married him it would fix it. [Cami: Got it]
So, um, so we were married in November. I… ended up getting pregnant in April but didn't know it until… July [laughs] [Cami: Oh my gosh!] Yeah. So.
Cami: So you weren't… you weren't sick or anything?
Crystal: No I was. I was sick. I was tired. But I… I was on, uh, Depo-Provera so I figured there was no wa- [Cami gasps] I mean pregnancy didn't even cross my mind until [Cami: Wow!] like finally I was talking to- my sister lived in Hawaii- my sister Liberty again- lived in Hawaii at the time… and one day I was talking to her and she's like 'Uh, you are, I bet you're pregnant. Have you taken a pregnancy test?' and I was like, 'Why would I do that? I'm on birth control that's crazy!' She's like, 'Yeah. You should take a pregnancy test?' and I was like 'I'll pass! Thanks! I don't want to!' [laughs]
Because I didn't want to have babies with him, frankly. [Cami: Right] Um, but… yeah… so, I finally caved, took a pregnancy test. I was pregnant. She was born in January. We were divorced by August. [laughs] [Cami: Seriously?] We were married for two years. Well, we weren't divorced in August. I left in August and it actually took me a year to divorce him. So we were divorced by, like, October of the next year. Yeah, so we were married for two years. [Cami: Okay] Uh, well, for three, but married and together for two. It just... it just was like… uh… not a good choice in the first place. So.
Cami: Was it just that you… you know, both, for the wrong… reasons? And
Crystal: Yeah. I mean, he married me because he was, um, a muslim from Jordan and he had found an 18-year old girl that he could influence and mold to his… to do his bidding. And be his- sub- sub- submissive wife. And the irony is that if anybody knows me, like, what a fool. [they both laugh] But I was so lost… [Cami: Psyche!] I was so lost at the time, you know, looking for somebody new to take care of me because my dad had just kicked me out of the house. Like, go be an adult. Bird fly out of the next. And I was tumbling to the ground. [Cami: Awwww] And so, it just, it was just, yeah, it was just ridiculous.
Cami: Did he ever have, uh, issues with you with, uh, custody with your… daughter?
Crystal: Oh my gosh yeah! We fought all the time. And she's 19 now but even now… like a year ago he… sent me all sorts of- he found out that she had gotten some tattoos and… it wasn't even a year ago, it was actually six months ago. And he sent me all sorts of hate texts about what a piece of shit I am, and how I've, you know, I've ruined her and he said to me, "As far as I'm concerned Sienna is dead and you killed her and blah blah blah" [Cami gasps: My gosh] Yeah. It's he drama with this one has been just like that for 19 years. So.
Cami: So, he, um, is he… back in Jordan?
Crystal: No, he lives in, uh, Boise actually. [Cami: Okay okay alright] So, yeah, he's got a, uh, second wife. And they have one daughter and are expecting actually a son in the next few days. So. Yeah.
Cami: Oh. Okay. So you guys got divorced and where did you go? Uh, who did you live with?
Crystal: I rented an apartment in Orem. I moved back to Orem to be close to my family. Um. And… I ended up renting an apar- actually the basement of a house. And I got a job… and I I met, um, uh… a girl there. And she ended up moving in and being my roommate. Even though it was a 1 bedroom house. [they both laugh] So we had the baby in a bedroom in the crib. And then she and I each slept on couches in the front room. [Cami: Whatever it takes] But you know, it worked, to save money. I was 20 years old. She was 19 years old.
So. Um, and then she ended up actually marrying my brother [Cami: oh my gosh!] Yeah, so. Um, and… I and then when she married my brother I had to find somewhere else to live. [Cami laughs: So so he didn't move in with you?] No thank goodness. He would have if I let him. [Cami laughs] So, my dad said that… my dad ? me… my dad- this was about, oooh, 18-months later, my dad said, "if you will go to church and… what did he say… keep the house clean and not smoke in the house. I will let you rent this cond- 3K square foot townhouse that I own [Cami: Whoa] for a hundred bucks a month. [Cami gasps] And first of all I thought that was funny because I never smoked in the house, so that was an easy one. But the kicker was go to church. And I… I started going to church. To… brainwashing. At the time I thought it was changing heart [laughs] change of heart. Now I realize it was brainwashing. Um, but, you know, found myself looking forward to it. And and enjoying it. And… decided that I wanted to… [sighs] dive all the way in. And get… my, uh, temple endowments.
Crystal Miller: Second Ex-Husband & Depression
Crystal: And my dad was actually my bishop at the time. This condo that he owned was just a few blocks from his house. He was the bishop. And so he, you know, interviewed me and made me fulfill some stuff to do that. But I ended up going to temple and getting my endowments. And then, um, he asked me to go to this, uh, institute class for single parents with another single mother ward member of his. Which I agreed. He's like, you know, 'Barbara needs somebody to go with blah blah' so I agreed. I went to this class… to make a long story short, met my second ex-husband there. And… uh, we, we not-dated for two and a half years and that should have been the first sign that it was a bad idea. But… yeah. I was… again naïve and whatever.
Cami: You, you not-dated?
Crystal: Yes, we did not date for two and a half years. Although we were having sex and… you know. [Cami: Huh] Yeah. But he would never say we were dating. I was never his girlfriend. And he would never, he was always keeping his options open.
Cami: Okay so he was keeping it open, and you were there hoping for more?
Crystal: Yeah. I was just, you know, I was back to needing a man in my life mode. [laughs]
Cami: Got it. Well yeah, because you're back on track as far as like, getting married and… completing your family.
Crystal: I got it wrong the first time. I got… I need… I got a second chance to get it right the second time. Right? [Cami: Right right right okay] So… [sighs] I finally told him that… you know, he could either marry me or… beat it. And he decided to beat it. For about 3 weeks. And then he came back out of nowhere and proposed to me. And like a foolish person I agreed. [laughs] [they both laugh] So. Yay! So, we got married, we were married for 10 years, we had 6 children together. So I have 7 kids. [Cami: Wow]
And… about… 8 years into the marriage I guess… let's see, thinking about how old my son is… about 7 or 8 years into the marriage I… realized, um, that I no longer could affiliate with the Mormon church or the teachings of the Mormon church or the beliefs of the Mormon church. And I told him… because I didn't believe in hiding things. And… um, you know, and I said, you know, "just so you know, I'm I'm no longer going to be Mormon." And at the time that I told him, he was like, "That's okay I still love you no matter what" but… if you read my blog post this kind of covers it. But you know he was like, "I'll, you know, I'll love you no matter what" but it proved to be false. That proved to be lip service.
And… it wasn't very long before there were snide remarks. And offhand comments and all that about the way I was choosing to live. And it wasn't even like anything crazy… it was like a cup of coffee. Or, not going to church on Sunday because in my.. in my mind it was no longer my Church. And… so, um, I got… really… uh, depressed. And, suicidal. And after about 9 months of being, uh, just absolutely the worst I could possibly imagine. And… about three weeks after I started really actually planning my death. Um, my sister saved me, so to speak.
And but it was still slow going from there. And one night I was, um, laying in my bed next to him and I was just crying. Because I was depressed. I didn't have any reason to be crying. I just was crying because I felt sad and I felt like crying. And I had a chemical imbalance that was depression. And he turned over, and he looked at me and he said, "[scoffs] How long is this gonna keep keep going on?" And I knew right then, like, we were done. Like, I I… no compassion. No, just, you're inconveniencing me and I don't like this, so when's it going to stop.
And so I… uh, cried myself to sleep that night. Woke up the next morning and… threw him out of the house. Told him that, uh, you know, we were done. There was no coming back from it. There was no fixing it. Um. We were absolutely done. And… we were divorced within two months, I think. And it only took- From the time I actually filed the divorced papers, I think it took 9 days until our divorce was finalized.
Cami: Let me ask you a question, um, actually two questions. Um, number 1, did he display that kind of tendency toward you and you just seemed to, uh, like, previously in the marriage? And finally you just saw it and you had enough?
Crystal: He did. Um, I I subscribed to what my mother taught me and what the Mormon church taught me. Which my mother taught me, if you can't be faithful to the man, be faithful to the marriage. And then of course the church taught, that any two righteous and faithful people can make a marriage work. And so I spent a lot of time… just trying to be righteous and faithful, and waiting for… it to work.
Cami: You know, I I wondered that because there was a lot of things that [sighs] a lot of things that my ex did… um, that I put up with… because… you’re on the track to celestial… marriage and and have a family and… And, um, when… I… had my faith transition and I saw a lot of things that were null and void… I… I started re-examining everything and it was like, I remember when I was… being as faithful as I could, I kept thinking… I would just be driving I would just be like, “I know if I just keep being this good wife, this good person, then in the next life… God will give me to somebody who really appreciates me. And I just kept thinking that, and you know, somebody who really loves me, in the next life… in the next life.”
Crystal: See, I thought that he would just change…. I thought that he would just change. [Cami: Well, yeah, well] He was, you know, he was a simple person. And he didn’t understand it on the, see I’m such a snob, but he didn’t understand things on the level I did. And that in the next life, you know, all would be, uh, revealed to him and he would just change. [Cami: And he would get it… yeah] We’d live happily ever after.
Well, and, and for me, yeah, it was just this [sighs] literal, like… realization… when… I was at my lowest low, there was no [Cami: hmm-mm] comfort. There was no, um, uh, I can’t think of the words… but… you know, he didn’t have my back. [Cami: Right] He was annoyed. And he was inconvenienced. And he just wanted it to be done. [Cami: Right!] And I hadn’t, you know, I I remember saying to him that night, when he said, you know, [mocking tone] ‘when is this going to be over?’, I was like… are you fucking kidding me?! [Cami: Right] Do you think I’m choosing this?! Do you think I like this?! [Cami: Right] Do you think I want this?! If I knew when it was going to be over, believe me, I would tell you and I would tell me.
It just it just blew- And even then, when I like, was so, incredulous, that that was what he was saying to me… it still didn’t click with him. And he was just like, ‘bluh’, you know, and I was like, my mind was blown! And I don’t want to vilify him, like, he’s a perfectly decent person, I’m sure. [Cami: Sure] And you know, he’s a good dad. But, it, we were not a match [Cami: Right]. And… you know, he does not offer what I deserve. And it it, I mean, it just blew… my… mind... [Cami sighs] I think strangers would have been more compassionate to me. [Cami: Right]. You know? [Cami: Right] So.
Cami: And it was almost like that… cold blast of water that finally went, “Oh! This seriously is not gonna work.”
Crystal: There’s no coming back from this. Yeah, like, he clearly doesn’t give a shit. [Cami: Yeah] And again, not to vilify him, [Cami: Right] but, you know, when it comes to me… he clearly doesn’t give a shit. [Cami: Right Right. Exactly] So…
Crystal Miller: Leaving the Church + Thoughts on Homosexuality
Cami: And so and so… Can I go back just for a second? [Crystal: Yeah sure] What… when you said, uh, I, you know, that the Mormon church wasn’t working out for you anymore? What did tha- what transpired, what… happened with that?
Crystal: Um… It started with, uh, well… It started with, when I started doing some, um… [longer pause] some… personal… I can’t even think of the word right now… um… shoot… some… personal growth [Cami: Okay] stuff… er, I, uh, that’s not the right word. But anyway… And I started apprenticing at the Hendrickson??, which I talked about in another, another, uh, uh, podcast [Cami: Yes, yes].
But I started apprenticing there, and, um, you know, started becoming more conscious. And… and… and I- when I say conscious, I mean like, literally, conscious. Not like, uh, you know, I… see dead people conscious. Just like… actually conscientious [Cami: Yeah! Aware] Yeah yeah. And uh, and then I met lots- So, I had- Sorry everybody that’s going to hate me for this, but I had spent my life up until this point, really truly believing that homosexuality was a mental disease. It was the result of some sort of abuse or… [Cami: Hmm-mm] Some sort of something though. But nobody was actually gay, they just were broken. [Cami: Right right]
And so I was tolerant in the sense that I would be just as tolerant of somebody with bi-polar or… [Cami laughs: Right. A disability. Right] Yeah, exactly. And so… um, and so in this apprenticeship, there were actually quite a- there were a lot of gays in this apprenticeship. And I remember, like, at first being like, “ohmygosh I’m around all the gay people, aaaah’ [Cami laughs: Gaydar]
And… learning to love- Growing to love them. Not learning to- but growing to love them [Cami: Right] and, them being such vital parts of my life and… it hit me one day. And and it it it didn’t even hit me, like it hit me very gently one day, like, ‘I love these people’ and ‘I have no- I have no place to make any judgement of them. They are… humans. And I love them’ And it just kind of was this, subtle like, okay, yeah. I’m cool. I’m cool with this. And I have no judgement. You know, I’m not gonna- I’m not gonna justify anything. I’m… they’re just people. They’re just loving people. And I’m loving people. And it’s cool. [Cami: And they’re perfect]
And then Proposition 8 happened [Cami: Oooh]. And… here was this religion that I affiliated with… that was… literally trying to… tear down the people that I loved. [Cami: Mmm] And I was like, “I’m out bitches.” [They both crack up laughing]
So and you know, and I’m just like I cannot… I cannot agree with this. I cannot affiliate with this. I… I… You are… so wrong. [Cami: Right] And… you know and anybody I talked to, at the time, that was- that was in, that was still active and were actively involved… um, they couldn’t see my point of view. And they- you know, they were still living this blind, ‘well if the prophet says it, it must be true. And I was like [sighs] [Cami: mmm] I… it… it blew- And then I just got really angry with the… with the… the… two-facedness of it. The dichotomy of ‘we don’t’ tell people how to practice politics, we stay out of politics’ and they’re out there politicking. [Cami: Right]
Like, like bullshit. [Cami: Right] Don’t… don’t… lie to my face. [Cami: Right] Because that’s exactly what you’re doing. [Cami: Right] So that was the beginning of the end for me. [Cami: Okay] You know, I didn’t, um, I didn’t leave for doctorial? issues or historical issues, I left because my gut said, “I can’t be here anymore.” [Cami: Okay] You are not my people.
Crystal Miller: Nursing School
Cami: Okay so, it’s just… it… total incongruency and your integrity led you to something else. [Yeah. Okay. Alright.] So, here you were, with, um, 7 children [laughs] and, um, and divorced again. Um… so tell me what… How…. How did you… start redefining your life as a single mom. As a not-LDS anymore. Um, tell me. How did that happen?
Crystal: [laughs] Interesting story. I went to nursing school because I knew on some level that my marriage wasn’t going to last. Or, at the very least, I wasn’t going to be able to rely on my husband. Um, I wasn’t- when I started nursing school, I wasn’t thinking divorce. I was just thinking… gotta take care of myself. [Cami: Yeah] Um, but I did end up getting divorced halfway through nursing school. And so I finished nursing school, and… um… I just… lived on food stamps, Medicaid, and my… student loans. For the second-half. And oh did I- I did have a job. I worked as a CNA on the graveyard shift. [Cami: Wow!] At a long- at a- actually a short-term care facility. I’m try- short term rehab facility. [Cami: Okay] And- making ten bucks an hour oh my gosh [they both laugh]
Um, and, uh, you know, I just, I, just made it work. Really. And, um after I finished with nursing school, I got a job pretty quickly. Um, that wasn’t the greatest job, I was doing home health. And then, um, short- it’s confusing, shortly thereafter [Cami: It’s okay] [they both laugh] Shortly thereafter, I found another job that I ended up getting quickly promoted in. And so, about, let’s see I graduated in September, and by December I was doing- I was doing okay. I was making 25 bucks an hour. So that wasn’t too bad. [Cami: Right] And… you know I I, my kids were in daycare still. I was still below the poverty line so the state was paying for my daycare. And I was still on foodstamps and Medicaid. And we just made it work. [Cami: Right] For as long as we could.
Crystal Miller: Investigated by DCFS
Crystal: And then, then there was the fateful day that that somebody called DCFS on me. [Cami gaps: You know…] [they both laugh]
Cami: And crystal, you did put this in a recording, but I don’t think I’ve posted it yet. Um, unless I did. Did I? [Crystal: I I don’t think so.] I don’t think I have. So why don’t you tell, um, I know you’ll be retelling it again but I think it’s important that you… [sighs] um, yeah, why don’t you share what happened.
Crystal: So I, um, I think my daughter was fifteen years old. She’s nineteen now, so she was probably fifteen years old. I get this call from my daughter, and she’s crying and and this is the middle of the day, I’m at work. And she says, “Mom, some lady just pulled me out of class and was asking me about our home life and our family.” And I was like, “What!” She’s like, “Yeah. She said she was a social worker and she just pulled me out of class and was asking me all these questions I don’t know what to do and I’m freaked out.” [Cami: Hmm] So, I was like, “What the hell?” And so then, um, as I got off the phone with her, I had a voice mail that turns out was from this social worker from DCFS, from Department of Children & Family Services, saying, uh, ‘you need- we need to meet, you know, please don’t talk to your children until I’ve talked to them.” [Cami scoffs] So, don’t, you know, go get your kids out of school, you know, whatever’ I was like, “what the hell is going on here?!” [laughs] [Cami: Wow!]
So she did, she went and pulled out- she went and pulled Sienna out, my fifteen year old first. And then went to my kid’s elementary school and pulled each of them out. Um, and interviewed them individually. And… and then… met me at my house, after school, and just said, you know, essentially, “So there’s been a complaint- an anonymous complaint, of neglect, you know that you’re neglecting your children, and, you know, we have to investigate it.”
So she interviewed me, she ended up interviewing all the kids again, and [sighs], uh, long story short… it took about 3.5 weeks… of… pure hell. And then she finally came back and said, “Okay, you know, your son that has asperger’s, he did answer the door and answered every question I asked him, which you may want to talk to him about not [laughs] giving personal information to strange adults. [Cami laughs] But other than that she’s like, “Your children are clearly fed, clearly bathed, you know, clearly not being neglected.” Um. And so, it was closed as ‘unfounded’.
But, the thing is, is my family, had been threatening- this was their big, um- they didn’t like the way I was… I was… living. They didn’t like that I wasn’t Mormon anymore. They didn’t like that I didn’t fit the, what I call the Stepford Mormon, uh, housewife role [Cami: Okay]. Um, and so I, you know, I uh uh, Jenna says this to some extent also, there are some women that are cut out to be mothers. That are cut out to be stay at home mothers. That are cut out [Cami: Right] to do crafts and make star-shaped sandwiches and blah blah blah. I’m not one of them. [Cami: Right]
I love my kids and I love being a mother and anybody who says stupid shit like, “If you want to be- you know, why would you be a mother if you’re not even going to raise your kids yourself?” They can kiss my ass because I’m still my kid’s mom. Right? [Cami: Right]
But I.. I I tried it. I was a stay at home mom for ten years and guess what? I I almost tried to kill myself. [Cami: Right] So, I can accept that I am not cut out to be a stay at home mom. [Cami: Right] Does that mean I’m not cut out to be a mother? No. It just means I’m not cut out [starts laughing] to spend 24-hours a day with my kids [Cami: Yah]
Cami: And you’re still full-time mom even if you’re not physically there with them, you’re always a full-time mom.
Crystal: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because guess who gets called when my son has a seizure in school. [Cami: Exactly] Me. You know, so, anyways… So, they just weren’t happy with me. They weren’t happy with what I was doing. They didn’t like that I was no longer a Stepford Mormon house wife. And, so that was their big… [pause] threat.
They threw it out at me for about ten months, um, for about ten months. And and it was snide comments- or not snide but offhand comments. Or somebody telling me they’d heard somebody else say this. So, anyway, long story short, suddenly DCFS shows up.
So I’m livid. I’m, you know, I figure somebody in my family’s finally done it. Nobody will fess up to it. Which I guess that’s the point of anonymity but still… like… I wrote them off. I told them all, like, “you are not my family.” You know, I- there’s family of origin, there’s family of choice. I’m done. [Cami: Right] Do- You get nothing to do with my children. You get nothing to do with me. I, you know, I disavow you. [Cami: Right]
And that was pretty shocking for them. They didn’t expect that. They really, I think they really were expecting me to toe the line. To be like, “Oh! You got me! You tricked me! Oh shoot! I’ll do everything you said!” you know. And I didn’t.
And it was really damaging, I think, that DCFS closed the case as ‘unfounded’. Because I think that, whoever called, and I, you know, to this day, I don’t know exactly what person punched the keys and spoke. But… um, I really think that they thought DCFS would even be like, “Yeah! You’re right! She’s a bad mom!” And that’s not the way it works, you know. There’s, there’s… DCFS sees the worst of the worst and I promise you, I’m not even the worst of the best. [Cami: Right]
So, um, I think that was really, uh, interesting- it was really, eye opening for them. Because I did, I did just told them, I’m I’m I’m out. Like, we’re, you know, done, uh, I, you can’t see my kids. Don’t speak to me. We’re not doing this anymore. It’s funny… because that’s when I decided to move out of Orem, uh, to Salt Lake City [Cami: Okay] er Salt Lake County because I’m like, ‘I have to get out of here. Like, I can’t, you know, I can’t have everybody hovering over me, and watching me, and judging me, and whatever. And I remember, [Cami: Policing you], yeah policing me! Exactly.
Crystal Miller: Moving to Salt Lake County & Disavowing Family (But they’re friends now)
Crystal: And I remember telling my dad, um, at the time, I’m like, I’m moving, just so you know I’m moving, I I I can’t do this anymore. I’m moving to Salt Lake City. I’m going to do it as quickly- you know, as soon as I can that’s feasible and not stupid. [Cami: Hmm-mm] And he said to me, I remember [laughs], it still makes me laugh because it was so ridiculous, but he said, “I don’t understand why you would do that. Why would you leave your support system like that?” [Cami scoffs: Support?]
And I was like, “Are you kidding me?!” Support system that called DCFS on me! Support system that has- Where was the phone call that said, “Hey Crystal, you seem like you might be struggling with your kids, could you use some help?” There was nothing like that. [Cami: Right]
There was judgement. There was talking behind my back. There were threats. And then there was the call to DCFS. I.. I think I’m going to go pass on this support system. [Cami laughs: Yeah].
[they both laugh]
Cami: Yeah, I don’t need that kind of support [both continue laughing & chattering] That is so true, it’s like, I, see, I can’t even relate if… I was your sister and I was there, I’d be like, “Hey can I come over and make dinner for the kids, while you’re at work?”
Crystal: Yeah, and that’s not what I got at all. All I got was [Cami: Geez] judgement and ? threats and finally the coup de grace, which again blew up in their face. And and, for the record, I would like to point out that I have, um, reconciled with everybody. Uh, I’m not a grudge holder. I’m not, like, I- I- you know, do I think they did it out of spite and hatred? No. I think they thought that they were right and I was wrong. [laughs]
Cami: Right. And they were trying to call you to repentence.
Crystal: yeah, yeah, exactly. So they were trying to, like, kinda, force my hand, but I don’t think there was any… um, spite, involved [Cami: Right] or hatred or anything. So, um, I have reconciled. But it was really- it was a life-changing event for me. It was the first time that my family, I think, realized that… I… don’t subscribe to… forced relationships. Be- just because you’re my sister, my dad, my mother, my cousin, my whatever… doesn’t mean I have to like you or love you. [Cami: Right] Or spend time with you. Or, you know, love is- to me, blood is not thicker than water. [Cami: Right] Sorry. I choose- I choose my relationships. And I choose relationships that are not toxic.
Cami: And that was probably really important for you.
Crystal: It was. It was huge for me. Like, to be able to say, um, “you’re toxic” or this- not even that you’re toxic but this relationship is toxic, I’m out. [Cami: Right] I will not I will not be in this relationship. [Cami: Right] And so, it was it was a huge shift I think for everybody. And I think that’s where my dad started to really shift a lot too. Like, he was pretty… decent… you know, he’d he’d changed a lot from when he was the authoritarian scary dad. [Cami: Right] to that point. But I think he changed even more, uh, when he… when that happened. When I said- when I chose, you know, I chose not him.
Cami: Okay! So you moved to Salt Lake County. And… how did you do?
Crystal: And… I… again, being a non-traditional human being that I am. I moved my kids from a 3,000 sq ft 8br 4ba house in Orem. To a 1,200 sq ft 3br 2ba apartment [Cami laughs]. Because I was- ??? was like whatever it takes. ??? I was like I’m I’m out – whatever that takes. And you know, it was actually awesome because I think we bonded as a family. A lot more than we ever did in that, tiny tiny tiny cramped space. [They both laugh]
Cami: I have a friend, she has six kids, single mom, and they had to do the same thing. I mean, really really crammed until they could get something bigger. And, [coughs], you just make it work.
Crystal: And we did. And it was surprisingly not bad, you know, it was- it was crowded and and… and even when I say crowded, I don’t mean people crowded, I just mean stuff crowded. You know? You got stuff for 9 people, you got a lot of stuff. Even if you have the minimal amount of stuff, it’s still a lot of stuff. [Cami: It’s still… yeah, exactly]
So, yeah, so we lived there for a year while we, while I- I shouldn’t say we, while I saved up to, uh, buy a house. And we bought a house. In… April of 2013. And we’ve lived here ever since. And then we got robbed.
Crystal Miller: Burgled
Cami: And then you got robbed just recently! That’s right, you posted that on, uh Woman Evolving. So yeah, that’s right. You got robbed. Hoo. Someone just… did they figure out what happened.
Crystal: No, they don’t care. If you think the cops care about your house being burglarized, you’re wrong? [laughs]
Cami: Do you have insurance that... helped to take care of…
Crystal: Yeah, I do. I have insurance, I had a thousand dollar deductible so I had to meet that first. But, um, I got some help. You know, on Facebook. I raised about $390 to cover that $1000 deductible. So it was good. You know, we got a few things we couldn’t replace. But we’ll live.
Crystal Miller: Life Is Fantastic
Cami: So… here you are, um, how is your life now? How would you describe it?
Crystal: Um, I think my life is fantastic. I have… um, I have a great job that I love. I have kids that are… so significantly more emotionally healthy now than they ever were when I was, you know, um, um, not living true to myself. And not letting them live true to themselves. Um, I I’m able to ask for help when I need it. I’m able to admit when I’m over, you know when I’m in over my head. And that was another big thing for me. You know, instead of trying to, uh, mask and pretend like I had it all square on my shoulders, you know, play the part. I I can say, when I need help… I I hired my sister to pick my kids up from school. And just be here until I get home, so she’s with them for about four hours in the afternoons.
Umm, you know, and, it’s, I mean, yeah, I I life is good. [laughs] I just.. I just don’t want to be burgled anymore
Cami: [laughs] burgled. Burgled. I love it. [continues laughing] Yeah well we don’t want that for you either. Uh, I think that, what you just said was something very very significant. To ask for help when you need it. I think most of us, um, feel a little ashamed. To ask for help. And yet, um, [sighs], you know we can offer each other so much more when we can, when we don’t, carry what we can I mean- I I I think we end up taking it out on our kids anyways, like we keep thinking, ‘oh im not a good mom if I don’t.. if I can’t do it all.”... and then we take it out on our kids… So we’re not a good mom. [laughs]
Crystal: Well, I think that, you know, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of… shaming out there in the world. And there’s a lot of judgement, and there’s a lot of, a lot of, um, there’s a lot of input coming in that tells you all the things you’re doing wrong and all the reasons you suck. And… um, that, you know, tuning that out takes, some focus and some clarity. And that was the big thing for me was that… all of these alleged reason that I’m not a good mom. Or, you know, that I’m doing it wrong or whatever. I just shut them out.
And, my day, I have a good day as far as parenting goes if I can look back at the day and say, “did I do my best? Did I do the best I could today?” And if the answer’s yes, even if the day sucked ass and everybody ended up crying by the end of the day, I did the best I could, that’s a successful day in parenting for me. So, and and that’s huge. Because we we get so hung up on this… you know, this, perfect parenting model that’s… [Cami: It doesn’t exist!] Yeah!, it doesn’t exist! And not, and so, just, I mean that’s, people ask me all the time…
There’s three things people ask me. They ask me how I can get along with my ex-husband so well. Which, I’m not currently getting along with the first ex-husband but I was until, last year when he found out about Sienna’s tattoos. You know how I can get along with my ex-husband so well.
And how I how I can give my kids so much freedom and how I get through the day being a single mom of 7 kids. And you know what, the answer to all of those is, if I can look back at the day and say ‘I was the best I could be and I did the best I could.’ That’s a successful day.
So. Whatever that’s about, like, I have no, I have no, what- what’s the benefit to me to being an asshole to my ex-husband. Zero. You know, what’s the benefit to me to trying to cage my children and make them into these clones of me, or these whatever ideal, I may have in my mind. Zero. What’s the benefit to me of beating myself up if I wasn’t the perfect picture perfect parent today. Zero.
Cami: And you know what, I think also, I get the feeling… that, if you were to look back and look at the day and you were like, ‘you know I didn’t do my best today. Hmm. I’m going to try better tomorrow.’ I have a feeling you… you give yourself permission to be human too.
Crystal: I do I do. I look back and say ‘did I do my best today? Yeah, no, that was clearly a half-ass job today [they both laugh]’ We’ll do it differently tomorrow then.
Cami: I get the feeling that you have that permission and what a load off of your mind. You know? I think you’re there for your children. I think you’re there for yourself. To to do that for yourself. I… [sighs] see how it flows into, every aspect of your life and makes a difference in how you communicate with the people around you. And you’re an inspiration to me in that aspect, I see that you’ve really evolved… into creating very healthy boundaries for yourself and… it really giving just being an amazing… person to yourself. Like like you’re best friend to yourself. You know…um, where you- you have your own back. And… um, wow. I’m really impressed.
Crystal: Well, thank you.
Crystal Miller: Closing Thoughts
Cami: You’re welcome [they both laugh] Um, is there anything else that you would leave- saying to anyone who is listening.
Crystal: No, but, I mean, I shouldn’t say no because yeah I would say, “No but yes” [they both laugh] I would just say, you know, Be be true to yourself. And be- willing to be raw rawly honest with yourself. When I say ‘be true to yourself’, um, I really mean, be willing to look and say, you know, ‘did I do my best?’ or ‘would I do anything differently next time?’
And I don’t believe in regrets. But I do believe in building from our experiences. You know, just, the biggest thing is- the worst person you can lie to in this world is yourself. So, I’m against lying in general. But… lying to yourself is the most destructive thing you can do in your entire life. So be honest with yourself. And be gentle with yourself as you’re honest with yourself.
Because that, is how you’re going to grow, you grow from your experiences and you grow from being willing to say I would do something different in the future. You know, I would do, I would make different choices in the future. I would base my choices on something different in the future, however that looks for you.
That would be what I say.
Cami: Right
[Outro Music]
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Other Woman Evolving Podcast Transcripts:
Episode 1: Woman Evolving - http://jpst.it/vs71
Episode 7: We're Sexy and We're Married - http://justpaste.it/womanevolving_1202015
Episode 19: Failure vs Feedback - http://justpaste.it/jo8n
Episode 20: Coulda Shoulda Woulda - http://justpaste.it/womanevolving_03092015
Episode 22: Radio Interview with Cate Allen - http://justpaste.it/womanevolving_03172015