JustPaste.it

Woman Evolving Podcast
Episode 20: Coulda Shoulda Woulda
Full Transcript


[Intro Music]

 

Cami: Hi! Welcome back to Woman Evolving. This is Cami, your host. And we are going to do an awesome panel [laughs] in the awesome panel [still laughing] oh yes [still laughing] because we believe in ourselves [background laughter]. We have good self esteem.  Um, we're going to do a panel on "Coulda Shoulda Woulda"'s and how to overcome that with Jenna Andersen and Crystal Scott. So we're going to let Jenna take this on. Jenna tell us why you chose this one.

Jenna: Yeah! I would say that this… topic… which I… call to myself "mourning the coulda shoulda woulda's" is something that has really been the focus of… the last 6 9ish months of my life. As I started thinking about who I wanted to be it… set me off in this spiral of of thinking about the decisions that I wish I had made instead and feeling like I couldn't become the person I want to because of the decisions I had made in the past.

I'm I'm coming out on the other side of that, finally, [Cami: Good], which is really nice. Because that was a hard transition period. And… I… wanted to talk a little bit about what I have done and and my mindset right now. And to hear if you guys have had similar experiences.

I thought I would just kick this off by reading a few sentences from a blog post that I write that I wrote on this topic that describes very well. [Cami: Okay] It says, "Allowing myself to mourn choices I've made or opportunities I've lost or relationships that have crumbled provides the closure I need to move on. And often not moving on doesn't mean leaving behind something completely. Rather it's about adjusting my expectations and approach to fit the reality of the situation. [Cami: Hmm]

And… I… for me I think that is this kind of epiphany that I've had over the last year is that it's okay to feel… it's okay actually to feel sad about anything. Even taboo subjects and I think we won't get really deep into those but the… example I will give is that I feel like I had kids before I was ready to have kids.

And that's I think a difficult subject to talk about because the decision to have my kids is something entirely different from the kids themselves. [Cami: Hmm] Who are these amazing little beings with awesome potential and… who are just living their life. They they can't do anything about when I made the decision and so… we're moving forward with that.

But, oh man, I really had to come to terms with like 'this is where I am right now at 29'. And it's a really great place to be. And once I allowed myself… I just needed to feel okay with feeling sad about that. And and that that was okay. And then I could move on from there.

Cami: How did you get to sad without judging yourself? Like, did you go through a period of like judging yourself or feeling… because I love the way you separated between having your children in your life versus when you had them. How did you get past feeling judgmental about yourself for feeling for really feeling that way?

Jenna: Um, a lot of therapy. [laughs] Is that… is that… [still laughing] I think that's the best answer I can give. Many many therapy sessions and… and that… oh that feeling that I could sit down on her couch and say absolutely anything to her and… there she wouldn't… you know tell everybody or hold it against me or… whatever really helped me process a lot of these thoughts and feelings I was having. I'm I'm a huge therapy advocate.

Cami: Well, thank you, because that's… I think we're getting to a place where people feel okay talking about going to therapy. You need to be able to sit on a couch and tell somebody like horrible things that you think sometimes you know? [laughs]

Jenna: [laughing] Oh, no, I agree I agree. I mean I I feel like I overuse this phrase of 'safe spaces'. Just really in love with the idea of figure out where your safe spaces are and and who you're going to create safe spaces with [Cami: hmm-mm] and give yourself those… those moments to be transparent and real and candid. And ideally… these are going to be people who they're going to take in what you say and they're not going to judge you. But they're going to reflect something back that you wouldn't have been able to figure out for yourself. And a therapist can do that or a friend can do that or your spouse can maybe do that, you know it depends on, your mom, maybe if you have a really awesome mom, Cami has an awesome mom [Cami: I do] I've met her [Cami laughs] And allowing yourself to trust and be vulnerable in safe spaces is where you can just let it out and then you can move on and grow from there.

 

Cami: Yeah and I have a thought that I want to go on with that but um I'm gonna… I I wanted to hear from Crystal too. Crystal, you and I've been through divorce and stuff [Cyrstal: Yes] do you ever go through this woulda coulda shoulda's with your situation and what…

Crystal: Um, absolutely. I I guess I feel at this point I'm kind of okay with it. I definitely would have made different decisions. I know my decisions that I made particularly with my marriage to Matt who was Mormon was absolutely religious based and I kind of have forgiven myself for that at this point. But yeah, I mean I sometimes… really hated that I made that decision. But, as time has gone by I'm actually totally okay with it now it doesn't bottle bog me down any anymore.

Cami: Hmm. And how did you get to that place?

Crystal: I guess I just I realized that I was doing the best that I could with what I had. Um, in terms of decision making and… I I mean I was very careful about that decision and I I thought I was doing best and I was wrong. So, I've been wrong about many other things before [Jenna laughs] so I guess I just kinda gave myself a break on that one.

Cami: [laughs] So you forgave yourself, basically.

Crystal: Yeah, Yeah. So I guess that's the thing now, I'm very careful like even more careful about decisions because I don’t want to do that again.

Cami: Yeah, and that's it kinda makes you more aware in the future like when you're making decisions. So what kind of decisions uh you mentioned your marriage, Jenna you mentioned, uh, children. Yeah, I'm trying to th- there's so many for me [laughs].

Crystal: So for me, you know it's really interesting that, um, Jenna says, you know, she regrets like, doing that so young… for me, I um, I waited to have more children until I was completely done with grad school, so at that time I was 30 years old. And… um… I had my daughter when I was 20, so there was a 12-year gap between my children. And by the time I tried to have Asher I was, I mean, I had five miscarriages before him and two after him. So I I actually regret not having more children, um, before I tried again because… I was going to grad school. So, I I absolutely regret that mis- decision and it was totally, um, I was not Mormon then it was totally because of grad school. Like, people just don't have babies while they're in grad school.

Cami: So I'm not really clear. You're you were uh regretting that you hadn’t tried before?

Crystal: Right, so I I really wish I had not waited so long before [Cami: Oh I see, okay] having another child. But, I in my brain I was like "Well the best thing to do is to wait until you finish with grad school" and then by that time it was really hard.

Cami: Yeah because your body was a lot older.

Crystal: Yeah. It was when I was 20 it was no problem at all [laughs].

 

Cami: That's an interesting perspective. What do you think of that Jenna?

Jenna: So this relates to… this realization I've had… that… I don't need to be happy all the time. Happy happy, you know? [Cami: Yeah] I can… be a lot of different things. I can be content, I can be frustrated, I can be angry, I can be regretful… um, I can be excited. But… I'm always going to have these these decisions.

And I'm flashing back to my last therapy appointment and we were we were talking about something and I… told the therapist "I just felt like I was doing better in this area and I've messed up yet again and I'm just so I'm so sad. That I can't, I don’t know, that I can't get where I want to be." And she said, "No, you have made great progress and you need to recognize that, that you're… and then you need to accept that you will continue to make mistakes and also not mak- like, you're not recognizing all the not-mistakes you've made" that that's my phrasing [Cami: Oooh yeah] not hers.

But I think sometimes I get too hard on myself and I don't… I've made a lot of really great decisions too. I've [Cami: Hmm] you know, for me marrying my husband was just this like fantastically good choice that I can't believe I managed to make at 23. It's… shocking [laughs, Cami laughs] that I got that one so right. And and I get so caught up in looking ---

[Audio cut out and jumped back to Cami]

Cami: --- Oh I mean maybe we look at success in a way that doesn't really allow space for the fact that we are able to, you know just do these simple things that really are successes we just don't they don't come with an award [everyone laughs] or you know, public praise, or a bonus or something like that.

Jenna: You know, I will just say that this was really - I loved hearing Crystal's - this is one reason why I love talking to other people about their experiences. I loved hearing Cyrstal's experience of… saying 'well I'm actually on the flipside of that coin' and I find that the more I share and connect with other people… the more I hear things that make me think 'Oh yeah, I'm I'm really grateful I never had to have that heartbreak… of… miscarriages or infertility or any of those other struggles. And and that's something that I should be celeb- you know, internally celebrating and recognizing, and I think that's going to help alleviate any 'coulda shoulda woulda' you know, leftover mentality that's swirling around in my brain.

 

Cami: Going back to the mourning, I I'm kind of mourning an event that really wasn't it hasn't been in my control but I have to let it go. And it's very painful so I've I've been dealing with the mourning and that can be a really ?? moment or 'wandering in the wilderness moment or moments' when you're, I don't know when you're having to deal with that when you're having to actually feel that it's so uncomfortable. Isn't it?

Jenna: [laughs] Yeah [Cami: I mean] I think that's a really good word [still laughing]

Cami: Yeah, how do you- it's like having sandy grit in your teeth and not being able to- it's like you have to go through that, you don't get over it you go through it. So, tell me some ways you guys go through the grief. Crystal, what comes to mind?

Crystal: Well, I started a newborn photography business [laughs]. So that was one way that I dealt with it, honestly, embracing that part of myself I think.

Cami: So you kinda took took on a different creative aspective for that?

Crystal: I did I did. And… I don't know, so, for me I think that that the process was kind of a little bit different because I had a lot of time to think about it and I did get a son. And there I I have a lot of friends who were going through infertility at the same exact time as me, and some of them still don't have children, so there was this major amount of gratitude that I got through that with a child.

I guess that kind of changed things and again I just kinda… you can dwell on things for a while which I am very good at doing but at some certain point, thankfully, I become aware of when it's destructive and I've just figured out ways to like recognize when it becomes something I'm obsessing over and it's just becoming a destructive and just moving beyond that and trying to… trying to make it so that I'm not focused on this one thing that actually can control my life if I allow it.

Cami: Wow. So you do this really creative aspect of putting that channeling that energy into something that created something that was a benefit to other people.

Crystal: Right. And, you know, like oohing and aahing over like nieces and nephews and my student's children. That's been really good for me, so.

 

 

Cami: Oh wow. Wow. I love that. Jenna what did you do during that mourning time.

Jenna: You know this is something that Crystal and I have in common, we're both photographers. And and it's funny because my answer is also very similar. I realized that I needed more sp- I needed to make more space… for the things that feed me in my life. And one of them… is… photography.

And actually this morning, I was trying to get out the door to the gym. And the kids are just… tusseling [Cami laughs] over and over and I feel crazy and it feels like it's taking hours just to eat cereal and get in the car. And so I decided to, I had five frames left on this roll of film that I need to send out tomorrow. So I decided to take a little detour of this nice lovely spot, with trees and everything that's right next to our house. And we just got out and I told the kids, uh, that we were going to try to find the biggest leaf. You know, have a competition to see who can find the biggest leaf. And I had my camera with me and I snapped a few photos. And it was, it really, just the act of participating in this thing that I love so much… changed my entire day. [Cami: Hmmm] It really did kind of reverberate through the day, I felt so good.

And I I think that for some people that's writing and for some people that's exercising and for some people that's cooking [Cami: So true] and, you know, making room especially, I mean this is uh a podcast for women. Making space, I feel like people talk about this all the time and we still, as women, are not very good at it. Making space for the things that feed you. And sometimes that's going to mean, I do tell my son a lot, "I'm working on this thing right now I can help you with that later."  But not getting into a mentality where we need to be meeting everybody's needs as soon as they present.

Crystal: I agree with that. And I'm I would add to that.. So this summer I read this book called "Learn To Live in the Now" with Eckhart Tolle [Cami: Oooh yeah]. And it was actually, a lot of it is a lot more metaphysical than I'm willing to accept, but honestly, he had some really good advice. And it's exactly what Jenna just said, "Live so that you're enjoying the moment that you're trying to make the most- like you can accomplish two things at once and have a really wonderful time if you just allow yourself to breathe, and say 'This is awesome. I'm not going to think about tomorrow. I'm not going to think about yesterday. I'm going to think about right now.'"

Cami: Yeah. Crystal, who who would have known that when you got older it would have been that- I mean 30's really not that old to start having kids, people are having them later than that. But, who would have thought that- I mean you couldn't have seen further ahead than that and…

Crystal: I never ever would have expected it [Cami: Right!] honestly, you know, my mom- I have- I'm one of five, my mom is one of four, my aunt's all have lots of babies. I I just, I don't know what happened, but something happened and it was not happening [laughs].

 

Cami: Yeah, well, and same with me. I I wasn't able to do that either. And I mean who's to say, Jenna, that if you… maybe you would have hit some years that you would have… become barren earlier. It's really interesting how we really 'coulda shoulda woulda's' really do mess with our minds don't they, because it's… it's all fictional. We don't know for sure. Or [Jenna: Yeah Yeah] or if we do know for sure, how the hell would we have known that back then [everyone laughs] you know? And also maybe touching on something that we should have known, that it was right in front of us… we chose not to see it… we chose not to deal with it. Maybe somebody who's gotten out of a an abusive relationship who saw everything, it was right there, and the "coulda woulda shoulda's" with that.

I mean, for myself, my marriage was just slowly just continually becoming more and more abusive. And… I I stayed s- I, you know, anything you can to keep the family together. But you can only work with what you had. And I ha- I had a chronic illness. I had a pain a chronic pain that they couldn't diagnose for seven years. And I had constant surgeries. I had and that was ever since my child was 8 months old. So I had this little baby, I could not have worked. It was this ongoing drama with my body. The only thing I had was just to keep my daughter happy. Because I could barely get up to to feed her and to take care of her because of my pain [Crystal: Yeah].

And so I have to look back at that and go 'Ok, you know what, I knew he was a jerk. But I really didn't have any family around. I didn't have support and I did the best I could with what I had.

Crystal: It It's so important to be able to say that to yourself but it does absolutely take some time. At first you're like "I was so stupid!"

Cami: And you know what, Crystal, helps me? Is that like if you think… this has helped me… if I ever visualized something where I'm beating the crap out of myself [Jenna laughs] I'll sometimes look- [Jenna still laughing, Cami laughs] I'm really good at it- but um, I'll sometimes look at like, "Okay, what if my daughter was that age and she did the same thing, would I verbally beat the living crap out of her?" And I'm like "Oh mygosh no! [Crystal: Absolutely not] I would love her, I would hold her, I'm like "You you are doing so good with what you had". And so I like literally have to visualize myself doing the same thing and sometimes I'll say it out loud to myself. I'm like "Cami, you're doing great." Just so I can hear it.

 

 

Crystal: I agree with you. I think it's so important, I mean it's it's all about being self-aware.

Cami: Yeah, exactly. When you know better, you do better.

Jenna: Aww I love that! Let's end on that! That's wonderful.

Cami: I do love it too. Bye you guys, thanks for listening. And don't "coulda shoulda woulda's" don't shizz all over yourself [they all laugh]. Make it a great day.

 

[Outro Music]

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

Other Woman Evolving Podcast Transcripts:

Episode 1: Woman Evolving - http://jpst.it/vs71

Episode 7: We're Sexy and We're Married - http://justpaste.it/womanevolving_1202015

Episode 19: Failure vs Feedback - http://justpaste.it/jo8n